Marc Kleinhenz, Creative Lead at LumiNarrative, joins me this week to delve into the company’s first project: an immersive horror puzzle book, titled Horrors Untold. He made one request when agreeing to an interview: that no pictures of him be included in the article. Despite this, he certainly hasn’t held back on sharing insights into the creative process for Horrors Untold, his personal experiences with Universal’s Halloween Horror Nights and the joy of introducing his son to scary experiences.
(Meet Your Maker is an interview series featuring creators of puzzle and mystery games and experiences from across the globe. We aim to shine a spotlight on both established creators and those who are just setting out on their journey. Stay tuned for more interviews coming soon.)
Would you mind sharing a little about yourself?
When I lived in Japan 19 years ago and was attempting to put together my first comic book (it’s called Refrains of Light, Twilight, though good luck trying to find it now), I accidentally stumbled into this thing called freelance writing. Doing articles on the side had never before occurred to me as something that I should attempt to do or that could become a career of its own to replace my then-day job, but that’s exactly what ended up happening – and the subject that allowed me to flourish and shrug off the shackles of corporate America was something else that I never would’ve guessed: theme parks, a long-lost love from my childhood.
Dan Hatfield, the founder of a website called Orlando Informer, brought me on first as a freelancer and then as an assistant editor. Even after he sold the business and moved back North to be with his family, I kept getting promoted, eventually becoming the editor-in-chief. Everything there eventually morphed into something of a nightmare under the new owner, but my experiences and exposure allowed me to expand my career: becoming an occasional consultant, appearing on radio and television news, and, ultimately, reconnecting with Dan and starting up this new little business called LumiNarrative that resulted in this new little project called Horrors Untold.
Oh, I suppose I should probably circle back ‘round and answer the rest of your question, shouldn’t I? I studied English and philosophy in college, taught English in the Land of the Rising Sun right afterwards, published a few short stories and comic books, dabbled in film and audio dramas, and have written over 1,000 articles for nearly three dozen sites. I live in Northeast Ohio, not too far from Cleveland, with my wife, three children, four cats, a dog, and an infernal bird.
What is LumiNarrative?
Dan Hatfield, the owner, really missed being in the world of theme parks and wanted to return his focus there, but to do so in a way that was fresh, original, and, I now realize in retrospect, reinvigorating. Coming from the guy who really influenced and challenged Universal itself to find its voice regarding its own blog, podcasts, and vacation-planning materials, that was no small request. What always appealed to me the most about the parks was, of course, their sense of immersion, of bodily transporting you to a different world in ways that every other medium has problems of doing, at the least, or is completely incapable of, at the most; this, in turn, led Dan and I to adopt as our mission statement discovering new methods to capture this essence, bottle it up in one product or package or another, and then deliver that to fans’ homes, allowing them to crack it open whenever they needed a little theming pick-me-up.
Oh, yeah – we also were foolhardy enough to couple this with another tiny little undertaking: finding entirely new avenues in which to reproduce that immersion. You can really see that with Horrors Untold, our first project, in ways both big and small: every chapter has a different look and feel; it intertwines the seemingly incongruous strands of fiction and nonfiction; there are secrets, including, of course, a series of puzzles and riddles, around every topographical corner; and you have to treat the book in ways that you never have before, including bending, tilting, folding, and, even, cutting the pages. We really hoped, by the end of the story, the book itself would be turned into physical evidence of your experience, that both it and you would be equally transformed.
(Yes, Dan and I are insane.)
Where did the idea for Horrors Untold come from?
Beyond the broad mandate and backstory of LumiNarrative (outlined above), the specific inciting moment for our book came from settling on Halloween Horror Nights, Universal Orlando Resort’s annual event that has gone on to become one of the biggest horror attractions around the world, as our main conduit of channeling immersion – there are very few devices known to man that are as fundamentally visceral as horror, and there are few haunts anywhere on the planet as sophisticated or influential as HHN. We knew that we wanted to tap into that chilling atmosphere, to essentially craft a portable haunted house that you could take with you anywhere, and we also knew that just sitting there and reading about a Halloween event could never come close to doing that.
This is where the original story, which was fashioned with the input of a writer and director who’s worked quite extensively with the Blair Witch Project guys over the years, came into play; by becoming more and more absorbed in this narrative reality where dark, ancient forces are inexorably surrounding and invading you, it puts you in the perfect mindset to read about Horror Nights and its 30-plus-year mythology it’s accumulated, which itself talks of twisted, supernatural figures hellbent on domination and destruction (the fact you also get some doses of real-world history – the development and expansion of Universal’s fall festivities and the surprisingly demented history of Christmas and how it became modern-day Halloween – was a fun little ingredient in our first-of-its-kind recipe, as well).
The whole puzzle element was primarily conceived of as a way to increase the user’s immersion (what’s more engaging than a bit of interactivity, especially when it can unlock extra story elements?), but also, secondarily, as something of a callback to the older HHN times when original-concept houses were the rule of the day and when their associated websites would have secrets and lore just waiting to be discovered. I, personally, never got to experience that era – I’ve only been professionally covering, and then personally attending, the event in the current so-called IP era, when franchises like The Walking Dead and Stranger Things are the central driving force for the proceedings – but I’ve heard many a fan speak fondly of those times. We thought that would clinch enthusiasts’ interest (and secure our internal mandate) for Horrors Untold: old feelings, new experiences, and novel delivery mechanisms.
Can you talk about the team you assembled and why you chose these particular people?
I knew, as both writer of the original chapters and project manager of the whole enterprise, that there was no way on God’s green Earth that I would be able to also tackle the research and invest the writing time necessary for the Halloween Horror Nights chapters. And the same can be said of the puzzle content, which was completely out of my league to begin with – this is how Xandra Hardigree, my co-author, and Mairi Nolan, our lead puzzle designer, came on board. I had actually worked with the former before, at Orlando Informer, while the latter came about from my digging into a field that was hitherto completely unknown to me.
Securing our illustrator, Elena Maria Sanchez, resulted from a similar process (taking a stab in the dark, essentially), while our story consultant, Jamie Nash, and our layout designer, Maggie Ryel, were recommended to me, in one form or another. I have to admit that, no matter their origins, we struck gold with every single hire; Mairi, for instance, completely blew me away with the quality and sheer creativity of her work, while Elena, as another example, just knocked every single weird, wild thing we threw at her out of the park (she later told us that this was one of the most challenging – and rewarding – assignments that she’s ever taken on, as we called on her to not only produce traditional pieces of artwork, but to also design a wide variety of other items, from logos to social-media templates to visual distortions).
I’d really like to take a moment here, if I may, and double down on this point: even though I thought I knew what to expect, each of these individuals continually surprised me, delivering quality and insights in droves. They even created, whether intentionally or accidentally, story elements that ended up (re)shaping the whole experience, which is best evidenced by all of the puzzles that utilize the hand that needs to be cut out of the book (and then folded and otherwise manipulated to reveal hidden sigils and solutions) – this was all the brainchild of Mairi, and it had a profound effect on the whole structure and dramatic impact of Horrors Untold.
It really reinforces the wisdom that you should seek to surround yourself with people who are more talented and smarter than you are (if nothing else, it makes you look better!).
How long did it take to get from the initial idea to a (huge) physical book that you could sell?
Approximately three years of active development, but there was a preceding fourth year where we were sketching out and otherwise working on several different (and sometimes intertwining) projects. We had to put most of those on hold to really buckle down on Horrors Untold, though we’re very hopeful – and eager – to turn back to them at some point in the future, fortune willing.
How did playtesting work? Did you make any big changes based on feedback?
The answer here is, I hate to admit, a bit embarrassing for me, as our deadlines kept getting shorter and our workload kept getting extended – poor Mairi really worked her butt off (and brought in a partner, Rebecca Kirby) to hash out her components in a remarkably short period of time. She even admitted to me she was surprised at how much they were able to get done within that vanishingly small window. The irony here is that I ended up hiring Mairi way in advance, and our initial conversations about what the puzzles would be and how they would integrate with the narrative really did inform the end product right from that early day. It’s just the designing and playtesting itself that ended up coming in fast and furiously, towards the very end of the whole process.
The biggest change resulting from feedback came in the way we had to explain or integrate puzzle elements into the overarching experience; it turns out that when you have a book chock full of ever-changing formats, illustrations, and other pieces of information, it can be exceptionally hard for the user to distinguish signal from noise – or, in other words, what were riddles and what was intended to be atmospheric place-setting. We ended up having to go back and explicitly state what had to be solved right then and there and what had to be saved for a later time, something which really shows the wide range of individuals who were attracted to the book and its many mysteries – some were well-steeped in the puzzle world, while others were completely new to it.
Did you ever consider online/interactive elements, or was it important to contain the experience within the book?
Yes, that’s it precisely – we always, right from day one, saw this as being a purely analogue experience, one that would remain solely and exclusively in physical print (partially to not break the immersiveness, and partially due to the whims of us creators). This, of course, presented some challenges – how do you hide a secret ending right there, on the page, for all to flip through and randomly see? – but we welcomed them, and I humbly believe, all things considered, we managed to pull it off (well, for the most part).
What were the challenges of producing an experience like this?
Man, the balancing act between what is real, what is fabricated, and what lies somewhere in between them – at least, thematically or presentationally – really was a tricky one, and it took quite a bit of conceptual time to work our way methodically through. Just creating a story that, as the foundation of the whole experience, was able to support the factual history of Halloween Horror Nights or Christmas and simultaneously the original found-footage narrative, along with all the puzzles and riddles, was the result of much painstaking deliberation and revision. We kept quipping to one another, “There’s a reason why no one has done this before!”
I was very apprehensive about cutting into the book pages. Why did you opt for this element of destruction?
It was always baked into the very conception of the project that it would be a living, breathing entity (something which the story, without getting into any spoilers, actively reflects). It would transform just as you, the reader and problem-solver, did; in this way, when you were done, you could proudly put your copy on the shelf and have it stand testament to all that you had achieved (or is that endured?). Again, everything comes back to immersion, and we thought that nothing had you falling into the atmosphere or the narrative quite like this ever before (plus, putting you in the rather uncomfortable position of having to cut the book was just another way we wanted to work feelings of discomfort – one of the biggest hallmarks of horror in all its many splendid forms – into the very essence of the proceedings).
We have received a wide array of comments on this front, with yours being an admittedly common one. This is why we opted to put a PDF copy of the hand on our website, to provide an alternative to those who just really didn’t want to commit textual sacrilege, but we should say that certain other elements in there don’t give you the easy way out.
The book will exact its toll, one way or the other. 😂
(Oh, one final point on this issue: we were extremely careful to ensure that cutting the pages didn’t destroy or otherwise interfere with accessing all the other information or artwork on any of the other pages. We hoped this would help alleviate any apprehension, at least a little.)
I assume you are a big fan of Halloween itself?
I am, indeed, though I have to admit that Halloween comes in at a close second to Christmas. When paired with the last of the magnificent holiday trio, Thanksgiving, it creates a one-two-three punch that truly rings the year out in style. I’ve often remarked how lucky we here in America are that we get such a heavy-hitting combo during the fourth quarter. It truly is the most wonderful time of the year.
Celebrating Halloween has, of course, changed as I’ve entered my middle age; now, with three young(er) children, it mostly revolves around trick-or-treating and family outings, but I still try to sneak in my movie marathons and late-night horror game-playing sessions. And what’s been the most exciting to me this year is that, now that my oldest is 13, I can start to open up more scary experiences with him, blending those two worlds. Just the other night, in fact, I sat him down and showed him the criminally underrated The Village for the first time. The conversations it produced – about societies and communities, and the value (or lack thereof) of deception or storytelling, and the roles and responsibilities of leadership/parenting – will, I strongly suspect, be a fond memory for me to look back upon for many Halloweens to come.
What is your personal experience of Halloween Horror Nights, and which year was your favourite?
This one, unfortunately, is a pretty limited answer: I’ve been to exactly four event years, in 2017, ‘18, ‘23, and ‘24, though I’ve been covering Horror Nights professionally for almost the past decade (not only tracking its continuing evolution, but also consuming and then summarizing the various intellectual properties that show up at Universal Orlando in the form of haunted houses or scare zones).
My favorite year was probably that first one, 2017; Scarecrow: The Reaping is still considered one of the scariest houses Universal has ever pulled off (probably why it has popped up over in Las Vegas for the company’s first-ever year-round haunt), and that first instance of Stranger Things truly was something magical. One of the rooms, which depicted the Hawkins National Lab, was exactly the same size as the set they used for filming the television series.
Do you have any more projects lined up?
As of this moment, no, but we’re very hopeful that we’ll be able to return to some of those other, equally wild and wacky ideas that we had in one stage of development or another during the earliest days of Horrors Untold’s gestation. The home-immersive market, we think, hasn’t even had its surface scratched yet, and we’d be very excited – not to mention humbled – to try and change that.
Thank you!
Thanks to Marc for giving such detailed answers and for his fascinating insight into the creation of Horrors Untold. I enjoyed my experience with this book immensely, which was unlike anything I’ve experienced before. With Halloween fast approaching, it couldn’t be a better time to pick up a copy for yourself and descend into the darkness…
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